Brooks Men's Ghost 16 in Black/Iron/Lava Athletic Lace Up Nursing Shoes | Size 9
(2,053 reviews)
The Brooks Ghost 16 Running Shoes have the comfort, style and performance you need, plus the eco-friendliness you look for. These shoes are designed with an engineered air mesh upper that blends stretch and structure with just-right breathability. Their soft, nitrogen-infused DNA LOFT v3 cushioning delivers lightweight comfort, while the new RoadTack rubber includes recycled silica making them lightweight and durable. The Ghost 16 is carbon neutral. Brooks has increased their use of recycled materials to lower carbon emissions of the product and then support independently verified carbon offsetting projects to neutralize the emissions that they can t yet eliminate. Look, feel and perform your best with the Brooks Ghost 16 Running Shoes!
The Brooks Ghost 16 Running Shoes have the comfort, style and performance you need, plus the eco-friendliness you look for. These shoes are designed with an engineered air mesh upper that blends stretch and structure with just-right breathability. Their soft, nitrogen-infused DNA LOFT v3 cushioning delivers lightweight comfort, while the new RoadTack rubber includes recycled silica making them lightweight and durable. The Ghost 16 is carbon neutral. Brooks has increased their use of recycled materials to lower carbon emissions of the product and then support independently verified carbon offsetting projects to neutralize the emissions that they can t yet eliminate. Look, feel and perform your best with the Brooks Ghost 16 Running Shoes!
$290.00
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Brooks Men's Ghost 16 in Black/Iron/Lava Athletic Lace Up Nursing Shoes | Size 9
$290.00
(2,053 reviews)
The Brooks Ghost 16 Running Shoes have the comfort, style and performance you need, plus the eco-friendliness you look for. These shoes are designed with an engineered air mesh upper that blends stretch and structure with just-right breathability. Their soft, nitrogen-infused DNA LOFT v3 cushioning delivers lightweight comfort, while the new RoadTack rubber includes recycled silica making them lightweight and durable. The Ghost 16 is carbon neutral. Brooks has increased their use of recycled materials to lower carbon emissions of the product and then support independently verified carbon offsetting projects to neutralize the emissions that they can t yet eliminate. Look, feel and perform your best with the Brooks Ghost 16 Running Shoes!
The Brooks Ghost 16 Running Shoes have the comfort, style and performance you need, plus the eco-friendliness you look for. These shoes are designed with an engineered air mesh upper that blends stretch and structure with just-right breathability. Their soft, nitrogen-infused DNA LOFT v3 cushioning delivers lightweight comfort, while the new RoadTack rubber includes recycled silica making them lightweight and durable. The Ghost 16 is carbon neutral. Brooks has increased their use of recycled materials to lower carbon emissions of the product and then support independently verified carbon offsetting projects to neutralize the emissions that they can t yet eliminate. Look, feel and perform your best with the Brooks Ghost 16 Running Shoes!
Colour:
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9
Price comparison
Last updated at 16/02/2025 14:49:45
Price history
Price history
Reviews
Brooks is going the wrong way with Ghost
27 April 2024
JoeW
originally posted on brooksrunning.com
Ghost 16 is better than Ghost 15, but nowhere near as great as Ghost 12.Using the high bar of Ghost 12, I was very unimpressed with Ghost 16.Ghost 16 upper is not comfy, a
little wide in the toe box, and doesn’t surround your foot with that plush feel of Ghost 12.Ghost 16 doesn’t have the run cushion feel of 12, but feels better than 15.Ghost 16
feels as if there is no arch support whatsoever. I find it hard to believe that it’s still classified as a neutral shoe.Brooks, you have gone way off the path. For your next iteration
of Ghost, go back to 12 and make the same shoe. If you want it to be different, try to make it feel like 12… but change isn’t always good, nor necessary.Don’t be ...
little wide in the toe box, and doesn’t surround your foot with that plush feel of Ghost 12.Ghost 16 doesn’t have the run cushion feel of 12, but feels better than 15.Ghost 16
feels as if there is no arch support whatsoever. I find it hard to believe that it’s still classified as a neutral shoe.Brooks, you have gone way off the path. For your next iteration
of Ghost, go back to 12 and make the same shoe. If you want it to be different, try to make it feel like 12… but change isn’t always good, nor necessary.Don’t be ...
Cruising in my new Ghost 16s
9 April 2024
MtnDad
originally posted on brooksrunning.com
I’ve been training in these Brooks for a few weeks and digging them so far!First thing I noticed was the (lack of) weight: light! Yet it still feels like I have a solid platform
underneath my foot, with tons of cushion for any kind of distance.My favorite features is the upper material. Some kind of magic makes the fabric soft yet snug and durable.
Feels great! Temps have been cold to mild here in the mountains, and it’s proved breathable through those.I have the gray/black/lime green color pattern. I’m not a fan of
super loud running shoes, and these pair with just about everything without looking heavy or overly dad-ish like some mono-color shoes can.My only disappoint...
underneath my foot, with tons of cushion for any kind of distance.My favorite features is the upper material. Some kind of magic makes the fabric soft yet snug and durable.
Feels great! Temps have been cold to mild here in the mountains, and it’s proved breathable through those.I have the gray/black/lime green color pattern. I’m not a fan of
super loud running shoes, and these pair with just about everything without looking heavy or overly dad-ish like some mono-color shoes can.My only disappoint...
Disappointed in the Ghost 16s
9 October 2024
Chrisb
originally posted on brooksrunning.com
Recently purchased a pair of Ghost 16s. This is my 5th set of Brooks shoes. Before this, I went through 2 pairs of Ghost 14's and Ghost 15's. Zero issues with the 14's or the
15's. I loved both versions. Very comfortable, durable, and even resolved an issue I was having with the ball of my feet.Within a week of the new 16's, I developed a sharp pain
in my right shin. Along with the pain came swelling. I do not run, but I do walk a lot (20-25,000 steps a day). This was not shin splints, which I've had before. This pain could not
be stretched out, it was in a small area (vs spread with splints in the past), and didn't get better after warm ups. It was fine so long as I basically didn't walk more ...
15's. I loved both versions. Very comfortable, durable, and even resolved an issue I was having with the ball of my feet.Within a week of the new 16's, I developed a sharp pain
in my right shin. Along with the pain came swelling. I do not run, but I do walk a lot (20-25,000 steps a day). This was not shin splints, which I've had before. This pain could not
be stretched out, it was in a small area (vs spread with splints in the past), and didn't get better after warm ups. It was fine so long as I basically didn't walk more ...
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Reviews
Brooks is going the wrong way with Ghost
27 April 2024
Ghost 16 is better than Ghost 15, but nowhere near as great as Ghost 12.Using the high bar of Ghost 12, I was very unimpressed with Ghost 16.Ghost 16 upper is not comfy, a little wide in the toe box, and doesn’t surround your foot with that plush feel of Ghost 12.Ghost 16 doesn’t have the run cushion feel of 12, but feels better than 15.Ghost 16 feels as if there is no arch support whatsoever. I find it hard to believe that it’s still classified as a neutral shoe.Brooks, you have gone way off the path. For your next iteration of Ghost, go back to 12 and make the same shoe. If you want it to be different, try to make it feel like 12… but change isn’t always good, nor necessary.Don’t be convinced by running shoe reviews from any site where they get compensated ... MoreGhost 16 is better than Ghost 15, but nowhere near as great as Ghost 12.Using the high bar of Ghost 12, I was very unimpressed with Ghost 16.Ghost 16 upper is not comfy, a little wide in the toe box, and doesn’t surround your foot with that plush feel of Ghost 12.Ghost 16 doesn’t have the run cushion feel of 12, but feels better than 15.Ghost 16 feels as if there is no arch support whatsoever. I find it hard to believe that it’s still classified as a neutral shoe.Brooks, you have gone way off the path. For your next iteration of Ghost, go back to 12 and make the same shoe. If you want it to be different, try to make it feel like 12… but change isn’t always good, nor necessary.Don’t be convinced by running shoe reviews from any site where they get compensated for their reviews. Those reviewers keep praising every shoe from every company with no conscience! I fell for too many of those “expert” opinions, only to realize they love every shoe - and get, at the very least, free shoes.Note: I’ve owned and worn Ghost 8, 9, 10, 12, 13, 15 and 16. The failures began with 13 and keep piling up.I returned my 16 model to the running store and am trying something different. No need to mention which shoe company it is, because it isn’t Brooks- sad to say.For the record, I’ve owned more than 20 pairs of Ghost in the past, including at least 10 of Ghost 12.
JoeW
originally posted on brooksrunning.comCruising in my new Ghost 16s
9 April 2024
I’ve been training in these Brooks for a few weeks and digging them so far!First thing I noticed was the (lack of) weight: light! Yet it still feels like I have a solid platform underneath my foot, with tons of cushion for any kind of distance.My favorite features is the upper material. Some kind of magic makes the fabric soft yet snug and durable. Feels great! Temps have been cold to mild here in the mountains, and it’s proved breathable through those.I have the gray/black/lime green color pattern. I’m not a fan of super loud running shoes, and these pair with just about everything without looking heavy or overly dad-ish like some mono-color shoes can.My only disappointment is the pronation control. Granted this is a neutral shoe and I should probably be in ... MoreI’ve been training in these Brooks for a few weeks and digging them so far!First thing I noticed was the (lack of) weight: light! Yet it still feels like I have a solid platform underneath my foot, with tons of cushion for any kind of distance.My favorite features is the upper material. Some kind of magic makes the fabric soft yet snug and durable. Feels great! Temps have been cold to mild here in the mountains, and it’s proved breathable through those.I have the gray/black/lime green color pattern. I’m not a fan of super loud running shoes, and these pair with just about everything without looking heavy or overly dad-ish like some mono-color shoes can.My only disappointment is the pronation control. Granted this is a neutral shoe and I should probably be in something with bit more support, but do find my foot rolling in a bit more than I’d like.Overall, this is a go-to road shoe that does not disappoint. Thumbs up Brooks!
MtnDad
originally posted on brooksrunning.comDisappointed in the Ghost 16s
9 October 2024
Recently purchased a pair of Ghost 16s. This is my 5th set of Brooks shoes. Before this, I went through 2 pairs of Ghost 14's and Ghost 15's. Zero issues with the 14's or the 15's. I loved both versions. Very comfortable, durable, and even resolved an issue I was having with the ball of my feet.Within a week of the new 16's, I developed a sharp pain in my right shin. Along with the pain came swelling. I do not run, but I do walk a lot (20-25,000 steps a day). This was not shin splints, which I've had before. This pain could not be stretched out, it was in a small area (vs spread with splints in the past), and didn't get better after warm ups. It was fine so long as I basically didn't walk more than 500 steps. The pain intensified after 500 steps to the point where ... MoreRecently purchased a pair of Ghost 16s. This is my 5th set of Brooks shoes. Before this, I went through 2 pairs of Ghost 14's and Ghost 15's. Zero issues with the 14's or the 15's. I loved both versions. Very comfortable, durable, and even resolved an issue I was having with the ball of my feet.Within a week of the new 16's, I developed a sharp pain in my right shin. Along with the pain came swelling. I do not run, but I do walk a lot (20-25,000 steps a day). This was not shin splints, which I've had before. This pain could not be stretched out, it was in a small area (vs spread with splints in the past), and didn't get better after warm ups. It was fine so long as I basically didn't walk more than 500 steps. The pain intensified after 500 steps to the point where I couldn't walk correctly.The pain eventually got so bad that I was taking NSIADs multiple times a day and wearing ice packs to relieve the pain and swelling. Nothing changed in my routine. No new exercise, no increased intensity, nothing. It wasn't until I was going somewhere (not wanting to get the new 16's muddy) that I put on the 15's and noticed I was able to walk with very minimal pain. Still there, but didn't increase as I walked. I stopped wearing the 16's completely and after almost a week, the pain is almost gone. I still get swelling here and there and continue to ice when needed, but I no longer need NSIAD's.I put a lot of trust in this shoe to the point where I didn't think twice about it being the culprit. I've recommended this brand to a lot of people, though now it seems it's time to find another.
Chrisb
originally posted on brooksrunning.comGhost 16 does not meet the needs of the runner
16 October 2024
I am a high distance competitive runner. I have no injuries and currently in good shape running 30-40 miles a week mixed between distance running on roads and speed work on the track. I only run in the Ghost and have been for the last 10+ years.I can absolutely not run in the Ghost 16. Fit is extremely off. The pair I bought runs very large. The Ghost 15 already required I go down from the typical size 10.5 I used to wear to a size 10 for a proper fit; now the size 10 in the Ghost 16 feels like it is an entire size too big.Also notice the slight charges have a noticeable impact to stride when running and the cushioning profile seems to stress pressure points resulting in aches and stress in the foot and legs that I could feel that would cause injury if continued ... MoreI am a high distance competitive runner. I have no injuries and currently in good shape running 30-40 miles a week mixed between distance running on roads and speed work on the track. I only run in the Ghost and have been for the last 10+ years.I can absolutely not run in the Ghost 16. Fit is extremely off. The pair I bought runs very large. The Ghost 15 already required I go down from the typical size 10.5 I used to wear to a size 10 for a proper fit; now the size 10 in the Ghost 16 feels like it is an entire size too big.Also notice the slight charges have a noticeable impact to stride when running and the cushioning profile seems to stress pressure points resulting in aches and stress in the foot and legs that I could feel that would cause injury if continued to run in.I stopped using the pair I bought and bought some remaining older versions to keep running healthy and wait it out until the next Ghost 17 comes out next year.The Ghost 16 is a significant disappointment and has many issues that should be addressed to meet the expectations of the runner and the quality Brooks is known for. I would be open to be contacted to discuss further. Thank you.
Jason
originally posted on brooksrunning.comGood looking and well made but maybe not ideal for big guys
17 April 2024
This is a great-looking and functional shoe but runs a touch narrow compared to my other Brooks models, and the 12 mm drop makes that feel even more awkward.The upper is breathable without being really stretchy and unstable. It also looks really nice. A+The nitrogen-infused foam makes for a nice rice. Soft, comfortable, and lightweight without feeling mushy. AThe 12 mm drop makes the transition to the toe feel a bit exaggerated and probably what makes me notice the toebox being a little narrow. That may be necessary with the new material, but who knows. All of this adds up to a little more jarring ride, and a less comfortable fit for a bigger guy that doesn't wear a wide shoe but needs all of the room in a standard width.
Matt
originally posted on brooksrunning.comGreat Balance, Stiff (too stiff) Heel. Great for Everyday Miles
1 May 2024
Fit and cushion feels great right out of the box. Put about 7 miles on them the first night and wore to work a few days later. Overall, I really like the fit and the quality of materials. In my opinion a HUGE step up from the Ghost 14 or 15. My only issue is the super stiff piece of plastic(?) on the back of the heel seems to create a rather inflexible back (heel cup) to this shoe, I had some Achilles tendinitis nagging me on one side after about 5 miles. I don’t normally wear a 12 mm drop shoe much these days, so that could be part of the issue. I am going to give them a few more easy runs to try to “break them in” and sincerely hope that goes away. Not sure why that piece of plastic is there at all TBH, but it does seem to create a very stiff heel backing to the ... MoreFit and cushion feels great right out of the box. Put about 7 miles on them the first night and wore to work a few days later. Overall, I really like the fit and the quality of materials. In my opinion a HUGE step up from the Ghost 14 or 15. My only issue is the super stiff piece of plastic(?) on the back of the heel seems to create a rather inflexible back (heel cup) to this shoe, I had some Achilles tendinitis nagging me on one side after about 5 miles. I don’t normally wear a 12 mm drop shoe much these days, so that could be part of the issue. I am going to give them a few more easy runs to try to “break them in” and sincerely hope that goes away. Not sure why that piece of plastic is there at all TBH, but it does seem to create a very stiff heel backing to the shoe, which I have read about in the professional reviews as well - so just to be aware of that as a potential issue if you have sensitive Achilles tendons. The underfoot transition otherwise feels very smooth and, true to Ghost form, this seems like a great shoe for everyday training miles. I likely will not use it for racing or tempo work as Brooks has far better offerings for those efforts. Overall I really do like the ride - not as “cushy” as a Glycerin, of course, but it strikes a nice balance for someone who appreciates a slightly firmer ride for training while still having enough cushion underneath. PS - The upgraded softness in the foam/heel/midsole is noticeable especially during easier paces and walking, but then feels somewhat firmer and more responsive during regular pacing….not sure how they made that happen (magic!), but it suits me just fine!
JamesL
originally posted on brooksrunning.comI'm impressed. A solid, comfortable performer.
13 April 2024
As a recent convert to Brooks and getting back into running, I was very excited to try the Ghost 16. I don't have a particular reason of why it took me so long to try Brooks, but I can say that I have had some mixed success trying other brands and found some to not fit well, or support my frame and running style. I'm a creature of habit and once I find something that I like, fits, and performs well, I stick with it. I'm happy to say that these shoes are ones that I am going to stick with. They passed all the tests I put them through.I was impressed with them right from the start. I loved the look, the feel holding and inspecting them, and the color. It's something that I could wear as an everyday shoe (I have) and also for running (I have) and training (have ... MoreAs a recent convert to Brooks and getting back into running, I was very excited to try the Ghost 16. I don't have a particular reason of why it took me so long to try Brooks, but I can say that I have had some mixed success trying other brands and found some to not fit well, or support my frame and running style. I'm a creature of habit and once I find something that I like, fits, and performs well, I stick with it. I'm happy to say that these shoes are ones that I am going to stick with. They passed all the tests I put them through.I was impressed with them right from the start. I loved the look, the feel holding and inspecting them, and the color. It's something that I could wear as an everyday shoe (I have) and also for running (I have) and training (have again!). Owning a multifunctional shoe important to me. I tend to have multiple pairs of the same shoes that I rotate through and pair them with different activities depending on where they are in the shoes life cycle. When I put them on, they felt great. The fit to my feet was perfect and they provided a lot of noticeable cushion (springy) and support. They did not feel like brand new shoes, but like ones that I had been wearing for awhile and have that nice well loved feel to the fit and you wear them because they are one of your favorite pairs of shoes. There was room in the toe box for expansion while running and the mesh was also breathable. The shoes felt solid moving around in them and feel like they are made with some quality materials.I started my break in period by wearing them as my every day shoe. They looked good as work shoes and fit into my casual work dress code. My days include multiple dogs walks on varied terrain, light hiking/walking, and lots of everyday moving around and standing. I have closed in on 20,000 steps in a day with them on without any issues. I'm bringing them as my vacation shoes in a few weeks where we typically close in on 30,000 steps. I'm confident they will handle the steps and if I decide I want to get a run in, I'm covered.I've got them out for some light gravel road/path work in addition to road and treadmill work, and they have performed well. As I mentioned earlier, I am getting back into running after a few years absence. I think my days of half marathons and extreme trail running are over, but I am happy to be getting back out there. I have not taken these for more than a few miles, but all the runs have felt good. My running style is fairly neutral in terms of foot position and have a heavier frame.I really like their look and feel and their overall performance so far. They are working well for what I need and expect from a shoe. At this point, I can't think of anything that I would change on them.Pros-Great look and feel-Very comfortable and fit like a glove-Good cushioning feels almost springy-Supportive over a wide range of activities and terrainCons-None yet
trailrunner42
originally posted on brooksrunning.comSo far great running shoe
11 May 2024
Started getting into running a little bit in the fall of last year and just started back up in April. Just a casual runner to be in better shape right now I’m running a little over an 5k every other morning. I started with and had the Nike Pegasus 40 before these shoes. Just to be clear I have not had these shoes long and have only done 5 runs in them so far so my review probably doesn’t help with how the shoe is in the long run. So far between the two I do like the ghost 16 better than when I first got my Pegasus 40 last year. The ghost 16 feels like a better quality made shoe imo. It doesn’t feel too wide or too narrow fits pretty great to my feet actually. If I had to pick something out I don’t like about it so far I would say the only gripe about it is my left ... MoreStarted getting into running a little bit in the fall of last year and just started back up in April. Just a casual runner to be in better shape right now I’m running a little over an 5k every other morning. I started with and had the Nike Pegasus 40 before these shoes. Just to be clear I have not had these shoes long and have only done 5 runs in them so far so my review probably doesn’t help with how the shoe is in the long run. So far between the two I do like the ghost 16 better than when I first got my Pegasus 40 last year. The ghost 16 feels like a better quality made shoe imo. It doesn’t feel too wide or too narrow fits pretty great to my feet actually. If I had to pick something out I don’t like about it so far I would say the only gripe about it is my left big toe was rubbing a bit first couple of runs it hurt and bruised a bit but that went away the more I used the shoe. I do all my runs in the early mornings and in this shoe so far I’ve only run in temps anywhere between 40 F and 60 F and also 2 of the runs in the rain. You will get your socks wet obviously if you run in the rain pretty sure no running shoe is waterproof but as for the grip in the rain it wasn’t much different than you running in dry weather which was nice. So yeah wish I could say more maybe if I remember I’ll come back and add to this after wearing it for more runs.
ChrisJ
originally posted on brooksrunning.comSolid All Around
9 April 2024
I’ve now run in them twice on the treadmill, each time for 2 miles; and a 5k outdoors (non-race).I also recently bought a pair of Adrenaline GTS 22’s to replace my tired Adrenaline GTS 19’s. My first pair of Brooks were the Adrenaline GTS 13’s, which were recommended given some slight over pronation). There’s nothing like the first wear after replacing a pair of running shoes! As soon as I put the Ghost on, my immediate impression was how responsive the sole was (very snappy!), compared to the new Adrenaline I’d just purchased (haven’t run in those yet). I took to the internet to really understand the differences across the more cushioned models, and learned quite a bit about this nitrogen foam!I started running longer distance (this is on coming from a former ... MoreI’ve now run in them twice on the treadmill, each time for 2 miles; and a 5k outdoors (non-race).I also recently bought a pair of Adrenaline GTS 22’s to replace my tired Adrenaline GTS 19’s. My first pair of Brooks were the Adrenaline GTS 13’s, which were recommended given some slight over pronation). There’s nothing like the first wear after replacing a pair of running shoes! As soon as I put the Ghost on, my immediate impression was how responsive the sole was (very snappy!), compared to the new Adrenaline I’d just purchased (haven’t run in those yet). I took to the internet to really understand the differences across the more cushioned models, and learned quite a bit about this nitrogen foam!I started running longer distance (this is on coming from a former high school sprinter) back in late 2018 (a 5k which I ran in the above mentioned Adrenaline GTS 13’s). They were replaced immediately after that race, with some Adrenaline GTS 18’s; and I worked up to finishing the Detroit half by fall 2019. After suffering a bad ankle sprain in June 2020, my once injured ankle has not felt the same — even after PT. I’d since transitioned to spinning but still get out for a run when I can. I’ve had some IT band irritation, potentially from cycling position, and I’m back focusing more on the run again.I can’t say enough about how much of a difference the nitrogen injection seems to make, and would love to see it come to the Adrenaline, Glycerin GTS, or Ghost Max.Brooks for the win!
LMaxwell
originally posted on brooksrunning.comThis Shoe Will Take You Miles and Miles
9 April 2024
Reviewing this shoe after putting in 45 miles of running and walking in 45 - 75* weather over the past two weeks. 6'0'', 210lb male.The Brooks Ghost 16 is a classic high drop, neutral trainer that is good for mixed use from running to walking and standing. The shoe's main update is an updated DNA Loft v3 midsole which does reduce some weight and add a little airiness to the ride. For me, the Ghost 16 is definitely doing its' job as a training shoe. The biggest plus for me is in the fit. The shoe feels very low in volume and it feels like it cradles my foot well as I push through the miles. Though a tad more space through the midfoot would be a nice addition.From a fit perspective the material has decent comfort, but the volume is a bit too low in the midfoot and ... MoreReviewing this shoe after putting in 45 miles of running and walking in 45 - 75* weather over the past two weeks. 6'0'', 210lb male.The Brooks Ghost 16 is a classic high drop, neutral trainer that is good for mixed use from running to walking and standing. The shoe's main update is an updated DNA Loft v3 midsole which does reduce some weight and add a little airiness to the ride. For me, the Ghost 16 is definitely doing its' job as a training shoe. The biggest plus for me is in the fit. The shoe feels very low in volume and it feels like it cradles my foot well as I push through the miles. Though a tad more space through the midfoot would be a nice addition.From a fit perspective the material has decent comfort, but the volume is a bit too low in the midfoot and can squeeze the top of your foot. Otherwise pretty good and comfortable lockdown elsewhere. The Ghost will be your workhorse training shoe capable of giving you a predictable ride mile after mile. It's stable too - everything lines up pretty well here for a neutral shoe. For $140 you ought to get your money's worth in mileage.Overall, for a neutral, daily training shoe without extra bells and whistles, it provides a solid if unspectacular ride. There is an added benefit if you like a tighter fit from the laces. With a high drop, neutral training shoe, it a very familiar feel to it. I will be keeping this shoe in my training roster for sure!